Ben, Matt






Great discussion about the moral implications of an immortal society. Also quite funny.


1:13 voices in my head

1:10 Matt tries to gin up voters for The Podcast Awards 'Religion and Inspiration' is the category. The name of the podcast you should vote for is: The Voices in My Head, the Rick Lee James podcast. Stop! Stop!

Ben watched half of the first episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation and hated it. If you're interested in checking the show out, don't start with season 1. Check out Measure of a Man or Darmok.

The Sci-Fi Feud...continues?

8:33 Strangers and Aliens is releasing a Justice League episode where they will reveal how The Sci-Fi Christian ripped them off. I have a feeling it's going to be about your hatred for Superman. Who knows? I certainly won't.

10:14 catholic words, great strategy

10:07 Matt says Ben will never preach again. It is possible, theoretically. If you become a priest? If I became a deacon. But I don't think I want to become a deacon. Do deacons--they're allowed to give the Sunday message? Yeah. The 'liturgy'? Yeah. Nice. I learned some Catholic words so we could talk about--I wanted to be able to relate. I don't know if liturgy is specifically Catholic... Um, 'pope' I learned. I was trying to research some terms that were Catholicy. I don't want us to fall away from each other. I want our friendship to thrive through this. So you've got to be able to throw out terms like 'liturgy' and 'pope' so that you save our friendship. That's a great strategy. 'Eucharist'... Do you know what that means? ...'sacrament'...

Matt is considering dropping his M. Div. now that's not an accelerated program.

Ben is working on his Th. M., planning to get his doctorate afterward.

15:53 Ben invites Matt to come hear him defend his Th. M. thesis in April. How mad would you be if I booed you? Uh, well, I would probably never vote for The Sci-Fi Christian for the Podcast Awards. Is that frowned upon? Probably. Uh, 'acolyte'. 'Acolyte'. Is this more of your Catholic terms? Uh, 'angel'. Yeah, that one's Catholic. 'Anointing'. 'Apostle's Creed'.

Main Topic

Is it moral for Christians to seek immortality through medical advancements?

Is a world without death compatible with Christianity?

Is a world without death necessarily a good thing?

Would Adam and Eve have died if they had never sinned?

Did God intend for us to stay in Eden forever?

23:22 Matt presents the view that death feels unnatural because pre-Fall we were going to live forever. I think that would be one take on it. The other take that you could say-- I love it when you do this. 'OK, so, yeah, that's one possibility. Let me now tell you the right answer.'

When God said that Adam and Eve would die if they ate the fruit, what did "death" mean?

They didn't instantly die, so possibly it was just a spiritual death.

Death somehow changed at the Fall.

How did the pre-Flood humans live so long?

Aquinas theorized that each angel is a different species.

34:28 Matt wants to do an episode about whether or not demons can manifest physically. I've always wanted to argue with you, the idea that demons cannot become physical beings. Whereas you think they can become physical beings. You think they can manifest physically, I don't think they can manifest physically. Maybe there's a demon right here, getting ready to manifest physically. That would be pretty cool if we were having that debate and just a demon appeared. He's like, 'Debate over.' I think you'd have to admit that I was right. I would admit it, and that would be a really popular episode. Yeah. The first demon interview in, Christian history. Would we put him on the air? Yeah! Isn't that a little irresponsible?

If death ceases to exist, does Jesus' death still have meaning?

How could the gospel be communicated as salvation from death in a culture where death has no meaning? You do have to solve this problem for cultures (like Ben mentioned) that embrace death.

51:48 According to Ben, 500 years ago the average age was "34 or something" and if Matt had been alive then he'd be carted off to the nursing home now that he's 30. People, don't fact check me too closely.

Let's fact check this closely. I can't find reliable infant mortality rates for this period, but it seems that a male English aristocrat (closest demographic I could find for Matt) who reached the age of 21 would, on average, live to 71.

How much of our feeling that death is wrong is due to our culture's deification of youth? We probably take it too far, but death is an enemy (1 Cor. 15:26), so I think some feeling of wrongness is appropriate.


Absolute immortality is immoral.

Medical advances to increase lifespans are moral.

59:58 The Ben-Koby feud continues. YOLO! Oh my gosh. You can do that when Koby's here, he'd probably enjoy that. Yeah, OK. Had to get my shot in at Koby in. No problem. It's in my contract. He fought back against you in the most recent Sci-Fi Feedback episode. Oh did he? Huh.